Your old way of thinking is not welcome in today’s world.

What triggered this post — which I hope I can keep brief — is some interaction with members of a boating forum that I joined and actively participate in to get answers to my questions about boating.

I’m relatively new to “serious” boating — the kind of boating where you actually go someplace, sleep on the boat, and need to know how all (or at least most) systems work so you can troubleshoot problems as you travel. Day-tripping in a boat when you’re never more than an hour or two hour away from your marina slip or boat trailer isn’t quite the same — if you’ve done both, I’m sure you understand.

As a newbie to this kind of boating, I have lots of questions and I look for answers from experienced “experts.” To that end, I joined MTOA, which stands for Marine Trawler Owners’ Association. My Ranger Tug R-29 CB is considered a “trawler” style boat, although it’s on the smaller end of the scale. Captain Paul, who I cruised the Hudson River, Erie Canal, and Great Lakes with back in 2021, was a member of MTOA and that’s how I learned about the organization. He flew the MTOA burgee and now I do, too.

MTOA’s primary feature is its forums where you can ask questions, post comments, and get answers and additional input from other boat owners. These guys fall into a few categories: relative newbies like me with questions, experienced good guys who provide answers without passing judgement, and experienced (maybe?) not-so-good guys who always seem to chip in their opinions, which may or may not be helpful.

You know: the same kind of mix you’d find in any forum. The big difference here is there there’s a moderator who does not tolerate insults or name-calling, so it stays, for the most part, relatively civil.

Now I haven’t taken any kind of survey, but based on the kinds of boats and the posts being shared by other members, I’m willing to bet good money that the vast majority of members — or at least those who participate in the forums — are men over 50 years old. I’ll go further to say that most members are probably retired — or at least old enough to be retired. They are, by definition, Old Guys. And no, there aren’t many women in the forums. In fact, I haven’t seen a post from a woman (other than me) in the forums in weeks.

Old Guys Being Jerks

I’ve been participating in the forums now for over a month and I tend to ask questions I think other members might be able to answer. I generally do get helpful answers. But every once in a while, I get an “answer” that isn’t an answer at all. Instead, it’s a thinly veiled criticism worded carefully enough to get past the moderator (who admittedly does not look at every single post).

For example, in early November, I posted this:

I spent much of October on the loop between Chicago and Alton near St. Louis. I’d been hoping to get as far as Paducah or Turtle Bay by now but a nervous crewmember and logistics slowed us down. I’m on a plane heading home for 3 weeks now and will return to continue the loop at the end of November.

I’m looking for anyone else heading south as late as me to possibly buddy boat as far as Turtle Bay. I’m not a member of the AGLCA so I can’t post there. I’m hoping to spread the word anyway. I can be reached at boating@marialanger.com.

(I should mention here that I don’t belong to AGLCA (American Great Loop Cruisers Association) because of the heavy-handed forum “moderation” by the organization’s owner. She didn’t like my post about the organization here on my blog and used her power to silence me on the forum when I shared information about my ill-fated crew member gig that summer (without using any names). In my opinion, I didn’t do anything wrong and several members came forward publicly and privately to back me up. When she had an opportunity to talk to me about this in person this past spring, she did not. Can I be expected to support her organization with my hard-earned money after that? I think not.)

I got a bunch of forum responses that offered advice about buddy boats, cruising that section of the loop, and even a few folks interested in joining me as a crewmember. For the most part, good, non-judgemental advice. But I also got this:

I can’t quite understand why you don’t just join AGLCA.
Cost?
A small price to pay for the potential benefits, especially as part of the cost of the trip, whether a partial or a complete loop. Amortized over 4000+ miles, it’s a pittance.
Content?
All sorts of stuff to be learned, benefiting from the collective knowledge and experience of a few thousand folks, with all sorts of various backgrounds.
You may even be fortunate enough to meet Herb!

First of all, I did not want to be drawn into a discussion about why I’m not a member of that organization. Second, I was offended by the insinuation that I was being cheap. I responded:

I belonged to AGLCA and didn’t like the attitude of the “organization” towards its “members.” I’d rather not get more specific here. So I did not renew. I am a principled person and refuse to give my hard earned money to companies I cannot, in good conscience, support.

From that point, it nearly evolved into an AGLCA bashing thread — I’m not the only one who has problems with that organization — but the moderator stepped in and stopped it.

Later, on the same forum topic, someone posted this:

I am just puzzled why AGLCA boats have to post their vessel movements and plans on the MTOA forum. The AGLCA forum is for that. I am a member of both forums but prefer to keep the topics and and discussions separate to the individual forums

Safe Cruising.

How’s that for a direct poke at me? I wasn’t going to let it pass. I replied:

As I mentioned in my original message, I am not a member of AGLCA so it is not possible for me to post there. I know that other loopers are members of this organization so I reached out here — and I’ve been successful making contact with a few helpful MTOA members.

I don’t recall any rules saying that cruising the great loop was off-topic for MTOA. I also do not recall it being a requirement to join AGCLA in order to complete or cruise on the great loop.

I hope this clears things up for you. Safe cruising to you, too.

Neither of these clowns has come back for more.

Then there was the stern anchor debacle. Anchoring is a highly controversial subject with experienced boaters and I should have known better than to ask this question:

With apologies to the folks who also read TugNuts, this is a repost here:

My boat is on the Great Loop right now and I’ll be returning to join it at month end. I plan to do a lot of anchoring over the winter. Notes on more than a few anchorages have suggested using a stern anchor to prevent the boat from possibly drifting into a channel or shore in tight anchorages. Most of the anchorages are in mud, gravelly mud, or sand with good holding and a light current. What I’ve experienced in the past is movement due to wind more than current.

I want to get the smallest, lightest stern anchor that’ll do the job so it’s easy to stow and easy to handle. Looking for recommendations. Bonus points for a complete “kit” I can buy on Amazon or West Marine and have it shipped right to the boat.

I should add here that I don’t need the BEST solution. I just need a solution that will work. This might be something I use just once or twice a month.

(TugNuts is another forum I participate in. It’s a support forum for owners of Ranger Tugs and Cutwater boats so I use it for boat-specific questions. I recently got an answer to a vexing chartplotter issue there.)

Although most answers were genuinely helpful and I wound up buying an anchor that would have satisfied most respondents, I did get this after I already reported on what I had bought:

Is this your second anchor or third?

Why don’t you want the best?

IMHO, Good seamanship would dictate that you always prepare for the worst. Otherwise you are making a recipe for failure.

When you use this anchor, the situation probably warrants it, therefore you do want the best. Get the biggest best anchor you can handle.

While his final paragraph does offer good advice, the rest of his message indicates that he did not fully read my original post. I replied:

This is a stern anchor for a 32 foot boat with a 2 1/2 foot draft. I may use it once or twice a month.

Why don’t I want the best? Of course I want the best. But I don’t have the money or the storage space for the best.

To his credit, he replied with some good and useful information. I’d been ready to write him off as a jerk but I don’t think I have to. Yet.

The Problem with Some Old Guys

You don’t have to be a genius to know what’s going on here. These are guys who grew up in an era when women were “helpmates” who raised their kids, cleaned their homes, did their laundry, and cooked their meals. On board their boats, the wives do pretty much the same thing, minus the kids and plus handling dock lines and socializing with the other “first mates” they meet along the way.

These guys are bothered — whether they realize it or not — by the mere idea of a woman owning and operating her own boat, often by herself. I rock their world view and they don’t like it. So they need to keep me in my place by pointing out what they see as my errors.

When I post a question to expand my knowledge, they see it as proof that I don’t know what I’m doing and they have to set me straight with their highly opinionated feedback. It’s almost as if I’m walking into a trap by simply asking a question.

(Or maybe they’re just assholes to everyone.)

What I don’t think they expect is that I won’t run away with my tail between my legs. I will respond to their passive-aggressive comments with my own and expose them as the opinionated assholes they are. I have no patience for bullshit.

As a paying MTOA member, I have every right to participate in the forums and extract the information I need that so many members are willing and able to provide. Likewise, I hope to eventually be able to answer the questions posted by other newbies. That’s what forums are for; that’s what makes them valuable to members. I’m not going to be bullied by anyone in my quest to learn.

Especially not some old guys with old ideas.